blitz
Nominated Tester
NT Admin/ Site Manager
Posts: 30
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Post by blitz on Oct 11, 2011 19:06:17 GMT
Hi everyone i have a question regarding cracks in windscreens a presenter said i cant fail a 6 inch in his windscreen because the crack was not in line of sight although it was in the A zone, the other NT at my work said the same thing. i checked the manual and also VTS device and i cant find any updates or special notices on this matter. my understanding is a crack/chip bigger than 10mm within A zone or bigger than 40mm within the swept area was a fail. am i correct?
blitz
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Oct 11, 2011 19:16:16 GMT
There has been changes in the past regarding the windscreen criteria, this was in relation to how the NT should inspect the damage, the NT should be sat in the drivers seat when assessing any damage. The criteria of zone A (10mm) and the swept area of (40mm) is the same as you say. So if you see any damage in zone A greater than 010mm then its a fail, also any damage within the remaining swept area greater than 40mm is a fail. Your other NT's are clearly incorrect, ask then to refer to the online manual before they make a final decision. Dave
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blitz
Nominated Tester
NT Admin/ Site Manager
Posts: 30
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Post by blitz on Oct 11, 2011 19:43:24 GMT
Thanks Dave i new i had it correct, But and there is always a But what if i couldn't see a crack or chip from the driving position because of a low seat or high dashboard, would i fail it as i no its there or pass and advise?
Colin
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Oct 11, 2011 21:44:24 GMT
Hi Colin, If damage is present like say behind the interior mirror but you can't see it from the drivers seat, then I would P&A. Dave
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Post by aylesburyjock on Oct 12, 2011 17:22:22 GMT
I would too, but I think it could be an awkward one, because if the presenter is shorter than you he would have the seat in a different position and it could be visible from there. Bit pedantic I know, but then mot's are. What do you think Dave?
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Oct 12, 2011 18:28:30 GMT
I heard through the grapevine that the drivers seat is having an additional check added, as far as I understand it to date, the seat is to be checked for adjustment forewards and rearwards, but would have to check the new manual updates to be certain. However, even if this check is brought in the checks on the drivers view of the road are the same, the NT must be sat in the drivers seat when assessing the view of the road through zone A and the remaining swept area. There is no requirement to look through zone A or the swept area at any angle, and there is no height requirements nor any consideration as to whether the presenter of the vehicle is a dwarf or 6ft 6 tall So the NT makes the decision by being sat in the drivers seat in the normal driving position, if then damage can be seen it should be assessed, if it cannot be seen then the NT cannot make a judgment, but I would P&A any damage which cannot readily be seen from the drivers seated position. Dave
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nitros44
Nominated Tester
esto es un negocio serio
Posts: 741
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Post by nitros44 on Oct 12, 2011 21:07:47 GMT
Hi everyone i have a question regarding cracks in windscreens a presenter said i cant fail a 6 inch in his windscreen because the crack was not in line of sight although it was in the A zone, the other NT at my work said the same thing. i checked the manual and also VTS device and i cant find any updates or special notices on this matter. my understanding is a crack/chip bigger than 10mm within A zone or bigger than 40mm within the swept area was a fail. am i correct? This sounds like one of those cases where that screen has been cracked for a while and possibly was tested and passed like that on previous tests and chances are the crack may not have been as severe last time round ,its obvious coz of the presenters response, Its interesting that the other tester has contradicted your decision. It may of been a good idea to ask the other tester why in his opinion it was not a fail, and let you know why you had made the wrong /right decision as its always best to know for next time the issue crops up on future tests.(assuming he is correct) Without seeing the damage its hard to say who is wrong or right,i can only make assumptions, The crack may have been 150mm viewed from outside,but viewed from drivers position you may only see 10mm (taken in account design and other issues regarding dash layout etc), " So in other words you you cant inspect parts of the screen you cant see from the drivers position, eg rear view mirror, tax disc,rain sensors. It may be your other tester was correct!!!
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alex
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by alex on Oct 13, 2011 10:05:02 GMT
surely if a screen has a crack of 6 inches in it zone A as we know is 145mm either side of the centre of the steering wheel it would be a fail and if it was outside zone A but in the remaninder of the swept area then this would also be a rejection,i have a small crack in my screen but its behind the interior mirror and its in the swept area but less than 40mm been passed and advised last x2 tests
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nitros44
Nominated Tester
esto es un negocio serio
Posts: 741
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Post by nitros44 on Oct 13, 2011 19:44:09 GMT
If the damage is behind the mirror and you cant see it while sat in drivers seat pass/advise ]IN ZONE A
what would happen if you can see a crack 5 mm in length from the drivers seat just above the dash and remainder of screen is not visible. but when viewed from outside the crack is actually longer and extends down to the base of the screen still within zone a .
To make a decision on weather to fail or pass/advise this example,,,,,,,which part of the crack or you going to measure ??
1/ the section you can see from drivers position?? or 2/the complete crack from outside ?? ,
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Oct 13, 2011 21:09:51 GMT
All damage no matter whether in zone A or the remainder of the swept area MUST be assessed from being sat in the drivers seat. Just another intersting point, zone A is shown in the testers manual, as is the remainder of the swept area, but suppose then that damage is present more than 040mm underneath the parked position of the nearside wiper blade? Suppose also that damage was present in the lower zone A more than 010mm, but again underneath the wiper blade parked position, are these areas still zone A and the remainder of the swept area? Dave
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graham
Nominated Tester
Posts: 331
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Post by graham on Oct 13, 2011 21:39:07 GMT
Surely the manual clearly states Whilst sitting in the driver's seat and, referring to the diagram below, examine the driver's view of the road through the swept area of the windscreen.
The important words are "view of the ROAD." So if there is damage behind the factory fitted (or obligatory) rear view mirror that does not impede the view of the road then P&A. Logically if there is damage, which in theory is in zone a, BUT it is so low on the screen as to only affect the drivers view of the bonnet surely again a P&A.
Obviously a "a windscreen sticker or other obstruction encroaching more than 40mm " is a fail as it is something placed there by the motorist rather that the manufacturer or the effect of the manufacturers design.
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hayden
Nominated Tester
VTS AEDM, SM & QC
Posts: 828
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Post by hayden on Oct 15, 2011 7:22:57 GMT
reply to dave's last post. as far as i am concerned any crack in zone A or the rest of the swept area regardless of size if underneath a parked wiper blade is a P+A , but i feel sure VOSA would disagree and hand some points out. my argument to them would be that the wiper has stopped and parked before reaching the crack, so not in swept area.
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Post by baz657 on Oct 15, 2011 8:25:02 GMT
Any cracks that low wouldn't affect the drivers view to the road. We're not starting to fail defects in windscreens within the drivers view of the bonnet - are we??? And before anyone gets pedantic, the meaning of the word road here is anything visible through the windscreen that isn't a part of the vehicle. ;D
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Oct 15, 2011 13:47:38 GMT
I do agree with what you said hayden, which is why I posted the information I did prior to you replying to see what others may think? However, the swept area is the area covered by the blade, but zone A is exactly that, zone A, which does mention swept area through zone A, so it is zone A as shown in the manual? Anyways in comparison to the British Standards for windscreen damage, VOSA have moved the goal posts to their own standards? Dave
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hayden
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VTS AEDM, SM & QC
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Post by hayden on Oct 15, 2011 14:26:31 GMT
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nitros44
Nominated Tester
esto es un negocio serio
Posts: 741
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Post by nitros44 on Oct 15, 2011 20:44:46 GMT
If the damage is behind the mirror and you cant see it while sat in drivers seat pass/advise ]IN ZONE A what would happen if you can see a crack 5 mm in length from the drivers seat just above the dash and remainder of screen is not visible. but when viewed from outside the crack is actually longer and extends down to the base of the screen still within zone and is .OVER 50MM. But remember you can only see approx 5mm from drivers seat To make a decision on weather to fail or pass/advise this example,,,,,,,which part of the crack or you going to measure ?? 1/ the section you can see from drivers position?? or 2/the complete crack from outside ?? , THIS THREAD STARTED WITH A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN 2 NT, WHICH METHOD IS CORRECT OR ARE BOTH OF THEM CORRECT
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Post by aylesburyjock on Oct 16, 2011 12:48:17 GMT
As Dave said, any damage in zone A which cannot be contained in a 10mm diameter circle is a fail.
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hayden
Nominated Tester
VTS AEDM, SM & QC
Posts: 828
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Post by hayden on Oct 16, 2011 15:07:36 GMT
and next year, Zone ‘A’ is:
in the swept area of the windscreen
290mm wide
centred on the centre of the steering wheel.
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alex
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by alex on Oct 17, 2011 18:47:49 GMT
as i read it in the latest inspection manual it states in he SWEPT area some wipers on some vehicles dont park at the base of the windscreen what do you guys say agree or disagree
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Post by aylesburyjock on Oct 17, 2011 20:16:50 GMT
as i read it in the latest inspection manual it states in he SWEPT area some wipers on some vehicles dont park at the base of the windscreen what do you guys say agree or disagree Very true, but since all you would see is bonnet under the wipers, it isn't going to make a lot of difference. Going from memory, I think that is what the diagram in the manual shows.
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