Post by Daveg on May 18, 2011 19:25:41 GMT
I have read elsewhere about a presenter of a vehicle that had an exhaust tail pipe of such a design that the manufacturer had as a part of the tail pipe incorporated a grille, which was preventing the exhaust analyser sampling probe from being correctly inserted into the tail pipe.
Questions were asked as to what the NT's would do with it at time of test. Some NT's said they would fail it in relation to section 7.3 B.1c and section 7.3C.1.
The reason for rejection says;
The emissions cannot be measured because a tail pipe accessory is fitted which prevents the insertion of the analyser probe.
OK straight forward the vehicle fails and is given a retest when modified so that the emissions can be measured. The NT could issue a VT32 and advise the presenter that the emissions could fail the retest if a fault is present, or words to that effect?
I have other experiences with exhaust emissions testing. I spoke to a VE in some length who differed on opinion based on what I said regarding my experinces as I will now explain.
If a vehicle is presented for an mot test and is a class of vehicle that can be tested, and that no refusal items prevent the test being carried out, then the vehicle should be registered and tested.
The NT carries out the emissions test first, that's me I always do. The vehicle is a euro iv or v for emissions purposes, I forget which one at the moment. I insert the sample probe and carry out the BET Test and find that the emissions are so low that the sampler in the bench of the analyser cannot pick up a reading, the gas analyser therefore cannot carry out or continue the emissions test?
What do I do?
In accordance with the special notices I make written notes and pass the vehicle.
But what happens when the exhaust of a vehicle is fractured, i.e. the vehicle is presented with the exhaust in two halves?
The NT more often than not knows there is a fault because the noise levels increase, but this in itself is not a refusal to test and the emissions must be carried out!
Assuming now that the vehicle is not a euro iv or v, and in my opinion even if it was the emissions test would still have to be assessed, but taking it that the vehicle is older and subject to a BET Test and if necessary a full CAT Test, the vehicle has a exhaust system in two halves and the emissions cannot be sampled, what would you as a NT do?
The VE said that I spoke to that the vehicle should pass the emissions test based on the special notice regarding ultra low emissions vehicles, which I said that the special notice did not apply to this situation?
He said that the emissions would be retested when the exhaust was repaired/replaced.
I said that if the exhaust had a major leak of gasses and the sample probe was unable to sample gasses and a printout was not able to be issued, then after completing as much of the test as possible, the vehicle should be issued with a VT30 and abandoned.
I explained that the VTS device program when the NT enters results of a test has been given information that if the NT has not got all the results as required by the testing guide, i.e. no brake test results or emissions, the the vehicle should be abandoned.
The VE did not like this and said he took advice from HQ which contradicted this written information, the VE said that HQ said the vehicle should fail the test?
The VE then further commented on the software program by saying that the information I had supplied from the VTS device was no longer in use because VOSA had removed it?
The VE gave a reference to the VTS User Guide which shows an example of a page where the NT enters the abandon or abort test function, but does not show the text I quoted from the VTS device - enter test results by NT.
I have had the opportunity now to examine the software program on the VTS device as per the VE's information, where again in my opinion the VE is still unclear as to the correct use of the software program, even after taking advise from HQ?
The main menu page of the VTS device, known as the desk top has the functions - register vehicle for test, then the next button below it says - abandon or abort test by NT.
I would like to give my view and understanding of this function from the main menu.
When the NT records information from the vehicle to be tested, i.e. registeration number, chassis number etc, the NT then goes to Computerisation and registers the vehicle for a full mot test.
Starting the mot test - during the test the NT finds that a item cannot be tested that the NT should have picked up on during the pre -checks, but the NT did not do them or the fault became apparent after registering the vehicle.
Because all items to be tested as per the testing guide cannot now be tested, i.e a pre-check item(s) which prevent the test from being carried out will now stop the test continuing, i.e. from the main menu (desk top) the second button down is the abandon or abort function.
This button now when depressed allows the NT to abandon or abort the test without any failure items, i.e. this function on the VTS device is for refusal to test items as per the testing guide.
The enter test results button by NT on the page with the mileage box present has text at the top of the screen which refers to the abandon or abort function that I am referring to, i.e. a test has been completed and adandoned because "In MY" example the exhaust is in two halves and the emissions cannot be measured, so I have no emissions results to record, and a FULL mot has not be carried out.
Following the special notices and the information in the guides, there is no reason for rejection which allows an NT to fail a vehicle because the emissions cannot be sampled, and the special notice only refers to vehicles with ultra low emissions, and the Computerisation specifically advises that the vehicle tested without emissions results should be abandoned.
The VE seems to advise that HQ do not agree and that the vehicle should fail?
So my question is then what reason for rejection would be used to fail a vehicle for emissions that cannot be tested?
Questions were asked as to what the NT's would do with it at time of test. Some NT's said they would fail it in relation to section 7.3 B.1c and section 7.3C.1.
The reason for rejection says;
The emissions cannot be measured because a tail pipe accessory is fitted which prevents the insertion of the analyser probe.
OK straight forward the vehicle fails and is given a retest when modified so that the emissions can be measured. The NT could issue a VT32 and advise the presenter that the emissions could fail the retest if a fault is present, or words to that effect?
I have other experiences with exhaust emissions testing. I spoke to a VE in some length who differed on opinion based on what I said regarding my experinces as I will now explain.
If a vehicle is presented for an mot test and is a class of vehicle that can be tested, and that no refusal items prevent the test being carried out, then the vehicle should be registered and tested.
The NT carries out the emissions test first, that's me I always do. The vehicle is a euro iv or v for emissions purposes, I forget which one at the moment. I insert the sample probe and carry out the BET Test and find that the emissions are so low that the sampler in the bench of the analyser cannot pick up a reading, the gas analyser therefore cannot carry out or continue the emissions test?
What do I do?
In accordance with the special notices I make written notes and pass the vehicle.
But what happens when the exhaust of a vehicle is fractured, i.e. the vehicle is presented with the exhaust in two halves?
The NT more often than not knows there is a fault because the noise levels increase, but this in itself is not a refusal to test and the emissions must be carried out!
Assuming now that the vehicle is not a euro iv or v, and in my opinion even if it was the emissions test would still have to be assessed, but taking it that the vehicle is older and subject to a BET Test and if necessary a full CAT Test, the vehicle has a exhaust system in two halves and the emissions cannot be sampled, what would you as a NT do?
The VE said that I spoke to that the vehicle should pass the emissions test based on the special notice regarding ultra low emissions vehicles, which I said that the special notice did not apply to this situation?
He said that the emissions would be retested when the exhaust was repaired/replaced.
I said that if the exhaust had a major leak of gasses and the sample probe was unable to sample gasses and a printout was not able to be issued, then after completing as much of the test as possible, the vehicle should be issued with a VT30 and abandoned.
I explained that the VTS device program when the NT enters results of a test has been given information that if the NT has not got all the results as required by the testing guide, i.e. no brake test results or emissions, the the vehicle should be abandoned.
The VE did not like this and said he took advice from HQ which contradicted this written information, the VE said that HQ said the vehicle should fail the test?
The VE then further commented on the software program by saying that the information I had supplied from the VTS device was no longer in use because VOSA had removed it?
The VE gave a reference to the VTS User Guide which shows an example of a page where the NT enters the abandon or abort test function, but does not show the text I quoted from the VTS device - enter test results by NT.
I have had the opportunity now to examine the software program on the VTS device as per the VE's information, where again in my opinion the VE is still unclear as to the correct use of the software program, even after taking advise from HQ?
The main menu page of the VTS device, known as the desk top has the functions - register vehicle for test, then the next button below it says - abandon or abort test by NT.
I would like to give my view and understanding of this function from the main menu.
When the NT records information from the vehicle to be tested, i.e. registeration number, chassis number etc, the NT then goes to Computerisation and registers the vehicle for a full mot test.
Starting the mot test - during the test the NT finds that a item cannot be tested that the NT should have picked up on during the pre -checks, but the NT did not do them or the fault became apparent after registering the vehicle.
Because all items to be tested as per the testing guide cannot now be tested, i.e a pre-check item(s) which prevent the test from being carried out will now stop the test continuing, i.e. from the main menu (desk top) the second button down is the abandon or abort function.
This button now when depressed allows the NT to abandon or abort the test without any failure items, i.e. this function on the VTS device is for refusal to test items as per the testing guide.
The enter test results button by NT on the page with the mileage box present has text at the top of the screen which refers to the abandon or abort function that I am referring to, i.e. a test has been completed and adandoned because "In MY" example the exhaust is in two halves and the emissions cannot be measured, so I have no emissions results to record, and a FULL mot has not be carried out.
Following the special notices and the information in the guides, there is no reason for rejection which allows an NT to fail a vehicle because the emissions cannot be sampled, and the special notice only refers to vehicles with ultra low emissions, and the Computerisation specifically advises that the vehicle tested without emissions results should be abandoned.
The VE seems to advise that HQ do not agree and that the vehicle should fail?
So my question is then what reason for rejection would be used to fail a vehicle for emissions that cannot be tested?