scoot
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by scoot on Feb 26, 2010 19:34:34 GMT
Just got a letter saying i am getting 60 point for not failing a micra k10 front crossmember,it was holed in 2 places just under the plastic cover,and i have 14 days to appeal in writing,i have always thought it was not a testable item,i did not even advise,will never do that again does anybody know were i could get some sort of diagram to show the distance from the subframe to the nearest load bearing/ mount is more than 30cm,
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hayden
Nominated Tester
VTS AEDM, SM & QC
Posts: 828
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Post by hayden on Feb 26, 2010 20:02:14 GMT
hi scoot
sorry to hear about the points. i work at a vts who are jap import specialists so i will see what i can find out for you. to the best of my knowledge there are no load bearing points within 30 cm of crossmember on the k10 or k11. this subject has been covered in depth on this forum so i am sure you will get input from other members. i think you should appeal, you have nothing to loose and everything to gain. good luck.
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scoot
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by scoot on Feb 26, 2010 20:17:26 GMT
thanks hayden,iam appealing but need some evidence to put to them,iam am a new tester ,only 4 months,when i got the phone call that vosa had recieved a complaint and i had to go to a station and vosa examined the micra,they pointed out 2 holes in crossmember,i mentioned that as far as i knew it was not within 30cm,the vosa guy just shook his head,and he said no more about it,me being a new tester i felt a bit stupid and did not mention it to him again,but we just took on a tester who is been testing for many years and he told me it is not a fail,a bit lost to wat i should do about this ?
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scoot
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by scoot on Feb 26, 2010 20:22:07 GMT
If anybody could get me any measurments or pics,could save me from suspension.
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hayden
Nominated Tester
VTS AEDM, SM & QC
Posts: 828
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Post by hayden on Feb 26, 2010 20:44:50 GMT
hi scoot i dont know if you have already read this but it might help you understand the disciplinary procedures www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/tgs0i000101.htmi spoke to VOSA a while back when i was unsure how to test k10 and k11 crossmembers and "they" told me it was a pass and advise. it seems like a case of dammned if you do and dammened if you dont.
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Feb 26, 2010 22:18:50 GMT
Hi Scoot,
if I were you at this moment lol, I would go to a breakers yard and find a K10 and a K11, hopefully with no engine in it.
Look at the mounting points for the cross member which supports the cradle. Photo graph the complete cross member with a tape measure in all directions showing that no prescribed areas are present.
Take your photographs to any hearing and explain that in your opinion the prescribed areas are within 30CM of any steering, braking or suspension components and that none are present on these models. You should also refer to the testers manual and appendix C showing their diagrams and the information contained in the columns, then explain your reason for not advising the corrosion?
Big mistake that, but not worth 60 points, maybe a slap on the wrist this time round lol.
My advise to you Scoot, take your time during the routine and fill in the spaces within the VT40 check list, and use the testers manual frequently and it will soon become very easy to use.
Dave
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scoot
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by scoot on Feb 27, 2010 14:04:25 GMT
thanks david,iam ok now and have a very good routine,that test was mid november,i have done about 600 tests since .
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immy
Nominated Tester
Posts: 61
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Post by immy on Feb 27, 2010 20:50:55 GMT
there is guy on this site name jonesy999 he can definetly help
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scoot
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by scoot on Feb 27, 2010 21:19:10 GMT
how can he help ?
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immy
Nominated Tester
Posts: 61
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Post by immy on Feb 27, 2010 23:26:30 GMT
well he helps testers and vts in these situation. Dont think its only you getting those points your vts is phone him he dont bite hes number is on this site if not tell me and i will give to you tomorow
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graham
Nominated Tester
Posts: 331
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Post by graham on Mar 1, 2010 18:39:31 GMT
Was that 60 points just for this item or were there other items picked up.
Didn't both you and the AE attend the VOSA re inspection and question the 30cm rule at that point?
Remember I posted previously that the Micra front cross member was queried at 2 refresher courses, Leeds and Lincoln, within the last 12 months or so. Two different instructors said the front cross member was deemed to be outside the prescribed area in relation to the suspension/brake pickup points.
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scoot
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by scoot on Mar 1, 2010 19:06:13 GMT
30 points each x 2 holes,there was somthing else i got pulled up for but these are the ones i need to try sort out,had a micra in today for mot,i measured and took photos,the nearest load bearing/susp mount is 58 cm from the crossmember,so got to hand in letters and photos to vosa in the morning,will thind out what they say.
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alfm1ata
AE & VTS Council Member
NT & QC
Posts: 65
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Post by alfm1ata on Mar 2, 2010 9:22:49 GMT
Guys,
Just a thought, although the crossmember is outside of the 30cm rule, if it was excessively corroded would it affect the steering control of the car? If so it would still be a failure item, although in the past I have always passed and advised these, as I personally have not seen one bad enough to consider it would affect the steering.
Don't forget it is YOUR opinion, but always, always pass and advise anything you notice is not 100% but don't consider a failure at the time of test, even if you know it will probably fail the test in the very near future. That way the worst you are likely to get from VOSA is a misjudgement and possibly 10 points.
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Mar 2, 2010 22:58:20 GMT
I agree with Alf, I had a Nissan Almeria 2006 model a few weeks ago, was shocked really to see that the front crossmember had along the front facing edge completely corroded away, but as I did not road test the car to prove any handling problems, I 'Passed and Advise'.
Just tonight on the VOSA seminar the trainer from Bristol was also commenting on decisions made by NT's, he also backed the VT32 saying if in dought, pass and advise, then the customer is aware of the problem, which is the important point, if you don't tell them they are no wiser?
Dave
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Post by glenandem on Mar 14, 2010 21:37:03 GMT
Hi mate, I've just had my three day course and I remember the teacher actually talking to us about this saying loads of people have been failing these for corrosion but as you say it's not a prescribed area, he did say though that like somone else said pass and advise,the teacher also said if he found something on a car that u passed and then it wasn't advised then he would come down hard on you for not advising it because it's as good as you missed it when doing the test as you can only say you advised it but it's not down on the computer or paper! He most definately said it wasn't a fail though, pass and advise he said, hopefully you advised it when you passed it and you'll be ok, let us know how you get on as I would be interested to hear what vosa say, good luck!!
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Mar 15, 2010 21:37:14 GMT
I am on a refresher next week, two days, got loads of pictures of faults on vehicles I found over time, going to take them and see what trainer has to say?
I also took a picture of a wishbone suspension system from the rear of a Almeria, 'I think' EEK, going to show trainer the picture and ask how can this suspension system be tested correctly with regards the testers manual, as in my opinion it can't?
Going to be interesting two days at training centre for me next week.
Daveg
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Post by westtime on Apr 7, 2010 20:47:16 GMT
had a visit from vosa told not to fail pass and advise special notice on the way hope this helps
dennis
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scoot
Nominated Tester
Posts: 305
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Post by scoot on Apr 15, 2010 19:34:46 GMT
Hi guys just an update,took pictures of a micra crossmember with a tape measure to the nearest load bearing point,it showed 58cm,and sent them in to vosa with my appeal letter,got a letter back not mentioning the crossmember,just a couple of other points that i did not fail,and saying that i would not be getting any points,but will be getting a visit within 3 weeks from vosa,and i was to be retested,vosa guy appeared this morning,tested me doing a test,everything went great,got the all clear,no points ,no more stressing myself out.
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