NT
Nominated Tester
Posts: 139
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Post by NT on Sept 23, 2005 19:58:43 GMT
There is NOTHING in the manuals to state when the NOT TESTED options are to be used. My Site Manager has been in touch with VOSA & SIEMENS to try to get some clarification on this issue. Siemens have replied "that there is nothing wrong with their computer system. It is doing what is has been designed to do." He was given a direct telephone number to a VOSA Help Desk. The VOSA Help Desk 'clerk?' that he spoke to said that this is not the first call they have received on this subject. There was no VE in the office to give an answer. He will get a phone call Monday to resolve the situation. Stay tuned...
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NT
Nominated Tester
Posts: 139
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Post by NT on Sept 26, 2005 10:49:01 GMT
VOSA rang back today. Unfortunately my SM was not in the office to take the call, so I spoke to the VE. Apparently: The option 'Items not tested - Headlamp Aim' should not be used when the headlight doesn't work It should only be used when the headlight switch is missing or faulty. I was told "I was splitting hairs!" by selecting headlamp aim not tested when the headlamp didn't work! So, if the headlamp is not working (and you are unable to test the aim) then you MUST NOT use the 'Items not tested - Headlamp Aim' option Instead, you must manually type in 'Headlight aim not tested - due to XXX headlamp not working'. Does this make sense to anyone ? If what the VE said is true, then shouldn't the 'Not tested' option only be made available when the 'switch faulty or missing' RfR is selected ? Can anyone find in any of the MOT testers manuals where it explains the use of the different RfR options such as 'Items not tested' ?
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Sept 26, 2005 19:23:55 GMT
NT, I shall start at the beginning regarding headlight switch faulty or missing then items not tested headlight aim should be used as a fail.
If one headlight is not working on one filament, then technically the light is still working but not on either main or dipped beam which ever is required for the test so then it becomes a fail reference manual lighting 1.2 reference 3a. quote a headlamp does not operate immediately when selected on dipped beam or main beam. I think doing it this way will clear the system to carry out a minor retest.
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motdave
Nominated Tester
Posts: 242
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Post by motdave on Sept 26, 2005 21:35:32 GMT
I was led to believe that a headlamp beam not working is a failure under reason for rejection 1.2 4a 'not in good working order'.
The reason 3a is for lights that have a time lag between the switch being operated & the light functioning.
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Sept 26, 2005 21:52:23 GMT
Maybe however i have known a filliment to make contact after a while with the engine running , when hot the filliment stops working [expantion] as the filliment cools down [contraction] again to repeat the process. I have never ever failed on the time lag tell me more?
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motdave
Nominated Tester
Posts: 242
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Post by motdave on Sept 26, 2005 22:00:53 GMT
Maybe however i have known a filliment to make contact after a while with the engine running , when hot the filliment stops working [expantion] as the filliment cools down [contraction] again to repeat the process. I have never ever failed on the time lag tell me more? The lights MUST operate immediately when selected on dipped or main beam. The time lag can occur as you describe with a broken filament, or when arcing occurs at the switch or relay contacts, and with dirty/burnt terminals at the rear of the bulb.
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Sept 26, 2005 22:19:43 GMT
So if the light does not work immediatly on main or dip then a fail.3a Fix it and carry out a minor retest.
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daveh
Authorised Examiner
My snooker room
Posts: 87
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Post by daveh on Sept 28, 2005 17:57:28 GMT
Think of it this way : When you fail a vehicle with the headlamp bulb not working and you write "Headlamp aim not tested" you are not FAILING the vehicle for not having tested the aim you are only advising the vehicle presenter that once the bulb is fixed that it may then fail again but this time on the headlamp aim.
There is No rfr for not testing a headlamp aim. DaveH
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Sept 28, 2005 18:42:21 GMT
DaveH are you saying that it means if there is no RFR then we don't test the headlamp aims? Crumbs my head is starting to spin on all this. All we want to do Fail it, repair it and do a minor retest on the flipping thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Tom
Nominated Tester
Posts: 227
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Post by Tom on Sept 28, 2005 22:36:00 GMT
Think of it this way : When you fail a vehicle with the headlamp bulb not working and you write "Headlamp aim not tested" you are not FAILING the vehicle for not having tested the aim you are only advising the vehicle presenter that once the bulb is fixed that it may then fail again but this time on the headlamp aim. There is No rfr for not testing a headlamp aim. DaveH Exactly. And the simple option of recording the fact that Headlamp Aim has not been tested is available as an option in the menu. But instead, we have been told not to use it, but to manually type in h-e-a-d-l-a-m-p n-o-t w-o-r-k-i-n-g, u-n-a-b-l-e t-o t-e-s-t h-e-a-d-l-a-m-p a-i-m. Why ?
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Sept 29, 2005 6:13:41 GMT
But proceedure before the aim we have the headlamps 1.2 3.a rfr so if the required beam does not work immediately then fail --------then a repair for a minor retest, pass if the headlamp aim is ok fail if it is not. SIMPLE. WHY NOT.
Also how long is immediately? Ref HID lights?
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NT
Nominated Tester
Posts: 139
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Post by NT on Sept 29, 2005 7:32:09 GMT
I have been always told to record items that have not been tested.
That was why, when the headlamp didn't work, that I recorded that the 'Headlamp Aim was not tested'. And headlamp aim IS a minor retest item.
If the rear exhaust is missing, and you are unable to test the exhaust emissions, do you just 'fail the exhaust for being incomplete', or do you 'fail the exhaust for being incomplete' and record 'Items not tested - Exhaust emissions'? Think about it...
I have not come across HID headlights yet. But if they work according to their original design characteristics, then we can only pass them. What is the time delay you are experiencing with them ?
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Sept 29, 2005 12:04:14 GMT
Common sence tells me that if a headlamp is not working on the required beam[ Fail], proceedure remember first,when the light unit or bulb is fixed repaired or renewed then a beam test has to be carried out. Keep it simple.
As for the HID light proceedure,in my eyes the manual is needing updateting more on this later.
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motdave
Nominated Tester
Posts: 242
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Post by motdave on Dec 7, 2005 21:32:50 GMT
The FAQ with SN 8/2005 gives the 'workaround' procedure for not being able to test headlamp aim when a headlamp is not working: Q. Fast track retest - The system will not allow me to do a Fast Track retest on a vehicle I failed yesterday for an inoperative headlamp A. When failing a vehicle for a headlamp defect, testers often select the statement “headlamp alignment test not carried out”. The system does not recognise this as a Free Retest Item and rejects the Fast Track option. The actual RfR such as ‘bulb not working’ should be selected, this will then allow a subsequent Fast Track retest if required."The system does not recognise this as a Free Retest Item" ?? ...and the system is supposed to make no changes to the test procedure pre-computerisation ? How many of you used to fail a vehicle with 'headlamp aim not tested', and then do a partial retest the next working day using the paper system ? I did.
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Post by baz657 on Dec 9, 2005 10:19:29 GMT
If a headlight bulb isn't working, we put a new one in and carry on with the test. Job done and an extra few quid in the kitty.
Or am I missing the point?
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spanner
Nominated Tester
Posts: 191
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Post by spanner on Dec 9, 2005 12:34:13 GMT
If a headlight bulb isn't working, we put a new one in and carry on with the test. Job done and an extra few quid in the kitty. Or am I missing the point? No not missing anything, think thats what a good lot of us do either during test or at the end provided theres no other failure items. Does go against what VOSA expect us to do though and thats no repairs during the test apart from now your allowed to alter headlamp aim. They also like all failures logged. There are of course some headlamps require to be removed for fitting of a bulb so it's all down to time I guess. I personally have never used the headlamp aim not tested. Suppose I guess because over the years with older cars main and dip were same bulb and if one beam wasnt working you always had the other to go by. I know most are checked on dip but if the main was working and heat spot was in same place as the other lamp you could take it the aim is right if the dipped beam was working.
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Post by baz657 on Dec 13, 2005 17:39:52 GMT
Sorry....
I should have added that in a case like this, it's only if the bulb is easily accessable and just takes moments to change. At the end of the test, if it passes, the faulty headlight bulb is entered as a PRS, and if it fails also, as a PRS (even though the VT30 doesn't actually say the fault was rectified). Any other faulty bulbs we wait untill the test is completed and do the same procedure.
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