lauren
Motoring Public
Posts: 4
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Post by lauren on Dec 21, 2005 19:12:55 GMT
I wonder if you could help me - I have a car that has been refused an MoT due to (amongst other minor faults) a non-existent external offside rear-view mirror. The vehicle was registered in 1969, and has an interior rear-view mirror as standard. As I have owned cars in the past that date from this period, and they were not fitted with offside rear-view mirrors, I was surprised to be failed on this point, but the tester in question was adamant that the MoT book says that an offside rear-view mirror should be fitted. In desperation, I downloaded the Vehicle Construction & Use Regulations 2005 (Amendment 4) and read through the whole lot. For a vehicle first used before June 1st 1978 which does not fit any of the defined categories (goods vehicle, bus, dual-purpose), the requirements state "At least one interior or exterior mirror", which my vehicle complies with.
My question is, what does the MoT book say about this, and if it is in conflict with the Construction & Use regulations applicable to the year of manufacture, will I be forced to comply with the MoT book? Due to the exotic styling of the vehicle, an external rear-view mirror will provide no appreciable improvement in visibility (I am fitting a wide-angle rear-view camera/monitor system and "jet-fighter style" interior mirrors at the base of the side-windows to improve matters, but neither of these features are technically an "external offside mirror"). I am ***desperate*** to avoid drilling holes in my freshly re-sprayed paintwork, but equally I don't want annoy the MoT man any more than necessary.
Please help! Lauren
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Post by manautos on Dec 21, 2005 19:34:34 GMT
Obligatory mirrors
Obligatory mirrors are a. an exterior mirror fitted to the offside (right-hand side when seated in the drivers seat), or
b, an exterior mirror fitted to the nearside left hand side when seated In the drivers seat), or
c. an interior mirror.
Passenger vehicles with no more than 7 passenger seats first used before 1 August 1978 must have any one of the above options.
Passenger vehicles with more than 7 passenger seats of any age, and all passenger vehicles first used on or after I August 1978 (not being a minibus as above), must have two mirrors, one of which must be option 'a'.
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Tom
Nominated Tester
Posts: 227
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Post by Tom on Dec 21, 2005 20:02:32 GMT
Testers who are not familiar with older vehicles sometimes apply the wrong fail criteria. As manautos has shown above, a car (with less than 7 seats) pre 1978 only requires ONE mirror. The mirror can be either an interior rear view mirror or an exterior rear view mirror. A copy of the MOT inspection manual can be found online at www.motuk.co.ukThe section on mirrors is at www.motuk.co.uk/manual_810.htm
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lauren
Motoring Public
Posts: 4
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Post by lauren on Dec 22, 2005 13:26:07 GMT
Thank you both for clarifying the situation for me; I failed to mention that my car only has 2 seats, so it does fall into the category for obligatory mirrors that satisfies "any one of the above options". I will take a copy of the relevant MoT section to the re-test (thank you for the web reference).
As I mentioned in my previous post, visibility is very important to me and whatever the outcome of this discussion, the car will have a rear-view camera/monitor and additional interior mirrors.
Thanks again for your help! Lauren
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lauren
Motoring Public
Posts: 4
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Post by lauren on Dec 28, 2005 14:55:25 GMT
Right, I'm back again. It seems that the MoT failure for the absence of an obligatory offside external mirror was provided by a computerised MoT test system. I believe that the vehicle registration was entered correctly (it's "G" reg, but with the year identifier at the 1969 end of course), and the system did not ask for an exhaust emissions check, which would be comensurate with that year of manufacture. However, a computerised failure puts me in a bit of a quandary, as the MoT tester presumably is no longer in a position to dispute the claims of the computer system, and I understand that a record of this failure has now been logged with a central computer system at VOSA. As has already been pointed out, the printed MoT manual says I am quite within my rights not to have an external rear-view mirror for this model year; however, in view of what seems like a system in need of some considerable further development, I have decided to fit two exterior rear-view mirrors and rely on these to meet the obligatory requirements, as it has always been my intention to replace the interior rear-view mirror with a camera-monitor unit, which may not in itself satisfy the MoT requirement (even if it does satisfy the Construction & Use regulations).
However, this presents a further problem - the mirrors in question are wing mirrors, fitted to the tops of the front wings and therefore not adjustable from the driver's position. Like the car, these mirrors are over 30 years old. Will my fitting these mirrors now open up a new round of failures?
Clearly this is a time of transition and major upheaval within the testing industry, and I fully understand the problems that MoT testers must be facing. It is unfortunate that I have chosen this moment to get my car back on the road after 15 years of protracted restoration work, but any comments would be gratefully received.
Lauren
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daveh
Authorised Examiner
My snooker room
Posts: 87
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Post by daveh on Dec 28, 2005 15:15:12 GMT
Lauren, In my view, if your tester has conceded the point that the manual is correct.....then why is he telling the computer system to fail it ? the computer can only deal with the info it is given. If he choses to he can completely ignore the fact about your mirrors and issue you with a pass certificate if there is no other problems.
Regards Dave PS ask the tester to press F5 on his keyboard, then select section 8 of the class 4 manual, under mirrors it says exactly the same as the written manual.
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Post by ammer1t on Dec 28, 2005 19:35:30 GMT
Hi Lauren ,I fully agree with Daveh ,plus I would be reluctant to start putting wing mirrors on if you wish to keep the vehicle original ,I admire your patience and suggest you inform him of this forum as it can help all of us .If he's worried he can always phone the helpdesk and inform them of his intentions (ha ha ) . PS Happy New Year to all........................
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lauren
Motoring Public
Posts: 4
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Post by lauren on Dec 30, 2005 19:14:17 GMT
Thank you both for your advice. Daveh, it was not my MoT tester who conceded the point about obligatory mirrors in the manual, his view is that the computer says an offside external mirror should be there, and as there isn't one, the car has failed. It is the kind efforts of the other members in this forum that have established that my car should not have failed. I am however glad to hear that the computer system should be in agreement with the MoT tester's manual and I will mention the F5 Section 8 Class 4 reference at the retest.
Thank you Ammer1t for your words of encouragement, I would like to keep the car original if possible, but there still seems to be a lot of subjectivity involved in the testing process, and I don't want to offend the tester by trying to tell him how to do his job. I am equally reluctant to take the car to another test station and start the whole process over again. I am resigned to fitting the external wing mirrors described in my last post, they will help matters a bit and at least they are contemporary with the age of the car. My only concern was that Construction & Use regulations stipulate that (obligatory) external mirrors should be adjustable by the driver from the driving position, and these mirrors cannot be remotely adjusted. However, looking at Section 8.1 of the on-line manual, I cannot see this particular proscription in the "reasons for rejection" column, so I guess I will be OK.
What a palaver! Lauren
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Post by manautos on Dec 30, 2005 22:07:54 GMT
The testers manual says “not clearly visible from the drivers seat, or incapable of being adjusted to be clearly visible from the drivers seat.” Does not mean that you must be able to adjust it from the drivers seat.
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daveh
Authorised Examiner
My snooker room
Posts: 87
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Post by daveh on Dec 31, 2005 8:35:25 GMT
Lauren, You are perfectly entitled to ask the tester to show you the info he is basing his decision on.....he must show you either the manual or the ref he is taking from the computer.
Regards Dave
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graham
Nominated Tester
Posts: 331
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Post by graham on Dec 31, 2005 9:25:58 GMT
DaveH is correct, as others have said. at this age it ONLY needs 1 mirror.
Its the tester that is failing the car NOT the computer system. He is deciding to fail it and selecting it (as a failure item) from a menu. Its not a case under computerisation of having to confirm that the mirror arrangement is correct.
Tell him, at this age, it only needs one mirror and that he should not fail it for not having an off side door mirror.
Graham
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Post by Tazimodo2000 on Jan 26, 2006 20:13:02 GMT
With any issue regarding MOT requirements you can always call the VOSA enquiry unit or ask the tester to do it there number is 08456005977
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