hmgvs
Nominated Tester
Posts: 18
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Post by hmgvs on Mar 26, 2007 15:41:37 GMT
had to fail a focus on excessive wear/play in n/s steering rack end, 1st fail of this type for some time,went through all fail items on system and could not find suitable wording for this fail item. I could have typed in my own words but been told if it cannot be found on system as an item of failure then cannot be failed? I suppose i could have failed it on INNER BALL JOINT but then how do i know that as its covered by a gaiter.I may have missed the correct phase so please enlighten me if you find it. QUESTION-- what would have been your wording. Regards Tony
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Rob
Nominated Tester
Posts: 279
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Post by Rob on Mar 26, 2007 17:21:30 GMT
The correct failure for this (according to my VE because I asked him to find out) is "Excessive play in nearside inner track rod end".
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hmgvs
Nominated Tester
Posts: 18
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Post by hmgvs on Mar 28, 2007 11:06:43 GMT
N/S/Inner track rod end,on something like a shogun it would mean something completely different,the point im trying to make is that if its hidden by the gaiter how can you be sure its the ball joint? Also if customer took vehicle away for repair and replaced the ball joint and the play was still there? Regards Tony
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Post by bodgerb on Mar 28, 2007 21:44:09 GMT
Tony On the training course I attended this was brought to the instructors attention on this type of fault, it was told to us if the play at the steering wheel was OK and play could be felt in the rack end, not knowing if it is the rack or ball joint because of a gaiter. Pass and advise. as you said if the ball join is replaced and play is still there they can complain to VOSA
Brian
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Rob
Nominated Tester
Posts: 279
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Post by Rob on Mar 28, 2007 22:31:36 GMT
Tony On the training course I attended this was brought to the instructors attention on this type of fault, it was told to us if the play at the steering wheel was OK and play could be felt in the rack end, not knowing if it is the rack or ball joint because of a gaiter. Pass and advise. as you said if the ball join is replaced and play is still there they can complain to VOSA Brian If there's only play in one side how could it be in the rack? The only place it could be is the inner ball joint on the track rod. I always get a colleague to shake the steering on full lock while I feel the joint under the gaiter.
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Mar 29, 2007 12:39:56 GMT
If there is movement,play in just one side it could well be the rack end bush excessively worn. Not the track rod inner ball joint.
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hmgvs
Nominated Tester
Posts: 18
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Post by hmgvs on Mar 29, 2007 14:41:07 GMT
Thanks for all your comments,I think it proves that there is no drop down on the MOT system to cover this failure, ( i may be wrong,but cannot find it)To say its the ball joint or play in the steering rack is conjecture when you cannot see it,this particular car was very bad,even the customer complained about it.a Pass and advise was not an option,when we took rack off the inner ball joint was very worn,and as said this is what is normaly the problem,however as also said i have also had very worn end bush.i may be nit-picking but when in print it needs to be correct. Thanks Tony
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Rob
Nominated Tester
Posts: 279
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Post by Rob on Mar 29, 2007 21:37:00 GMT
If there is movement,play in just one side it could well be the rack end bush excessively worn. Not the track rod inner ball joint. Possibly but I always check it on full lock, you can feel the ball joint through the gaiter. The rack end bush having play would be up and down or side to side movement, not in and out. I think I'll stick with what my VE told me, as it's him who will hand out the bollocking if I get it wrong.
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Steven
Nominated Tester
Posts: 131
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Post by Steven on Mar 29, 2007 22:16:56 GMT
Components enclosed by gaiters Because dismantling is not permitted, it is accepted that visual examination of some components which are enclosed by protective gaiters will not be possible.
If it is not possible to correctly determine which component is at fault, and there is not excessive free play at the steering wheel, then your only option is to pass & advise. Use the Manual Advise option & enter text along the lines of 'Excessive play detected in Nearside of Steering Mechanism'
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wingnut
Nominated Tester
Posts: 186
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Post by wingnut on Mar 30, 2007 17:31:31 GMT
In my thinking if play movement is detected,then it can be failed on whatever item it is providing it is tested correctly. There is to much pass and advise as an easy option to get out of the failing of saftey critical items. A imbalanced wheel that can cause a worn inner ball joint to fail with the resulting possible loss of vehicle control in a short period of time. Vosa would soon pass the buck,saying that it should not have been pass and advise due to the incorrect testing proceedure. Sorry Steven but i do not agree to the pass and advise on such an important issue.
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Rob
Nominated Tester
Posts: 279
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Post by Rob on Mar 30, 2007 18:49:19 GMT
Sorry Steven but i do not agree to the pass and advise on such an important issue. I'd go along with that too.
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expat
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by expat on Mar 25, 2010 14:07:38 GMT
its a ball joint treat it as you would any other and fail it for excessive movement
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Daveg
NT & VTS Council member
I believe I am perfect, but others may differ in opinion?
Posts: 1,549
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Post by Daveg on Mar 25, 2010 20:11:33 GMT
One must be careful when taking advice, even if from a VE or the National Enquiry Unit. A tester is expected to use experience when making decisions, and when advice is required the testers manual is to be consulted, then if an NT does not understand it, ask VOSA what it means telling them of your concerns before making a decision.
Failing items does not give you a get out of jail free card, whichever decision an NT takes must be based on both the Testers manual and sound judgment backed by professional experience.
A tester who makes the wrong decision and gets caught out would face 10 points for an error of judgment, and if the item was not a testable item, but typed in as such, then 20 points for an item that is not testable, therefore amounting to 30 points which is a written advisory from VOSA, providing they don't find anything else which could then lead to a Contemplated Withdrawel letter.
When I was on my recent refresher training course, one of the NT's on the course who was older than I, where I am 45 years old, said that if he had a defect on a presenters vehicle which he did not want to pass it, even though it was not a testable item, he would write something in to justify failing it???
VOSA's Trainers and enforcement staff are all very familiar with the testing guide, the manual, and vehicle systems, therefore they could quite easily pick up on what you type in and send you some problems?
There is also the problem where VOSA don't like dishonesty, which attracts 100 points in the testing guide, so how does an NT escape that one, simple; Pass and Advise.
The ball joint which is being referred to on the Rack and Pinion Steering System with regards the Ford Focus is called; Rack to Track Rod Ball Joint, and is enclosed by a gaitor, therfore referring to the information column in the testers manual one can see it is not testable.
Should an NT consider the bush worn, which also cannot be seen, then using the testers manual section; 2.2D.1e will clearly sort out any problem of excessively worn bushes where excessive tightness or roughness in the steering mechanism would fail the test, then it is nothing to do with the MOT Scheme, but a matter for the Commercial Garage industry and the presenter to diagnose and repair ready for a retest.
Dave
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