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Post by markie76 on May 15, 2012 0:09:24 GMT
Hi Guys,
Can I have some more advice please on seat belts.
The kit car I am looking at has 2 seats. The seat belts have been removed from both front seats to fit 5-point race harnesses.
The kit car is on a 1980 V registration (from donor vehicle) but it was built and IVA'd in 1999 and V5 registered in 2000.
FOr the purpose of checking the MOT seat belt requirements for the car - was the Kit Car '1st Used Before 1 April 1981'...?
The donor vehicle was as it was a 1980 vehicle. But the kit car wasn't in its current form until 1999-2000 when it was registered and V5 issued.
My question is; for the purpose of the MOT will the seat belt requirements prior to 1 April 1981 be applied to it during an MOT?
Thanks,
Mark
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phaetonott
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Post by phaetonott on May 15, 2012 23:12:15 GMT
I would go by the date of first use that is on the VT40 when I print it. I believe that is the same as the date in your V5.
Pre 81 you only need a shoulder restraint, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Don't go any less than a 3point belt on either seat
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Post by markie76 on May 16, 2012 18:26:00 GMT
I would go by the date of first use that is on the VT40 when I print it. I believe that is the same as the date in your V5. Pre 81 you only need a shoulder restraint, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Don't go any less than a 3point belt on either seat So by first use do you mean 1980 for V reg? Thing is the car is currently on SORN as it was taken off the road to do some jobs on (re-place bonnet, new windscreen mounts and fit 5-point race harness) and therefore the MOT expired in late 2010. The car has done under 500 miles since the last MOT and has been kept in full working order but the jobs didn't get done and now the owner has other priorities so the car is being sold. It it currently in Birmingham and I am thinking of buying it but I'm in Hampshire. So I'm thinking of putting on a drivers side mirror & refitting the existing seatbelt just on the drivers side then driving it down to Hampshire straight to a pre-booked MOT. After that it will get flashy new mirrors professionally fitted and a pair of Willans 5-point race harnesses
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prb5244
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Post by prb5244 on May 18, 2012 7:13:16 GMT
thing is the current mot rules apply to a standard vehicle and may not apply if its been modified I use the flow chart in manual for seat belt requirement hope this might help
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Post by markie76 on May 19, 2012 1:12:00 GMT
thing is the current mot rules apply to a standard vehicle and may not apply if its been modified I use the flow chart in manual for seat belt requirement hope this might help so whats the definition of 'modified' and where is the procedure/rules for 'modified' vehicles? the car has a proper registration letter and not a Q plate. the flow chart in section 5.1 seatbelt requirements; Q: 1st used on or after 1 january 1965? A: YES - its V - 1980 Q: Is the ULW weight greater than 2540kg? A: NO - it weighs around 600kg Q: 1st used before 1 april 1981? A: YES - its V - 1980 RESULT Driver’s & specified front passenger seatA - A belt which restrains the upper part of the body (but need not include a lap belt) Other forward facing front passenger seats (where fitted)B - None Rear seats See notes on Page 2C - None So according to the flow chart - it just requires a shoulder harness 'sash' belt that goes over the shoulder diagonally down into the recepticle mounted scurely? For driver & front seat passenger.
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nitros44
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Post by nitros44 on May 19, 2012 17:03:35 GMT
Hi Guys, Can I have some more advice please on seat belts. The kit car I am looking at has 2 seats. The seat belts have been removed from both front seats to fit 5-point race harnesses. The kit car is on a 1980 V registration (from donor vehicle) but it was built and IVA'd in 1999 and V5 registered in 2000. FOr the purpose of checking the MOT seat belt requirements for the car - was the Kit Car '1st Used Before 1 April 1981'...? The donor vehicle was as it was a 1980 vehicle. But the kit car wasn't in its current form until 1999-2000 when it was registered and V5 issued. My question is; for the purpose of the MOT will the seat belt requirements prior to 1 April 1981 be applied to it during an MOT? Thanks, Mark Hi Markie,and welcome to the forum, If i have understood the post correctly this is a kit car built and registered in the years circa 1999/2000 which means it will need 3 POINT BELTS IN BOTH FRONT SEATS When you say it has a 1980 "V" registration ? in that you mean it has private/cherished plate allocated to it. The V reg plate or the year 1980 will have no bearing on 1st used dates or the test as the plate does not correspond to the year built or registered. The vehicle will have to meet the mot standards in regards to seat belts;and other testable items applicable to the year of 1st use which if i understand it correctly is 2000 not 1980
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Daveg
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Post by Daveg on May 19, 2012 17:37:50 GMT
Hi Guys, Can I have some more advice please on seat belts. The kit car I am looking at has 2 seats. The seat belts have been removed from both front seats to fit 5-point race harnesses. The kit car is on a 1980 V registration (from donor vehicle) but it was built and IVA'd in 1999 and V5 registered in 2000. FOr the purpose of checking the MOT seat belt requirements for the car - was the Kit Car '1st Used Before 1 April 1981'...? The donor vehicle was as it was a 1980 vehicle. But the kit car wasn't in its current form until 1999-2000 when it was registered and V5 issued. My question is; for the purpose of the MOT will the seat belt requirements prior to 1 April 1981 be applied to it during an MOT? Thanks, Mark Hi Mark Have a read of this lot. Vehicle ‘first used’ Dates - Application of Test Criteria NT’s will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the Vehicle Specific Information supplied by the MOT database. This will usually include the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date. Where this information is available, the NT should only use Reasons for Rejection applicable to the vehicle’s age. However, in cases where this information is not available or incorrect, the NT should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows: a. Its date of manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being registered in GB (e.g., an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle), or b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be considered as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975. For all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971, or c. In any other case, the earlier of either: · Its date of first registration, or · The date six months after it was manufactured. This information should be entered onto the VTS Device to enable the NT to select the appropriate Reason for Rejection Dave
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Post by markie76 on May 20, 2012 23:50:10 GMT
THanks for the replies.
The V reg is not a cherished plate but from the donor vehicle.
The V5 document states: First registered: 01/06/1998 First used: 13/08/1999
Although when you do reg number lookups online it comes up as 1980.
So I guess this means the requirement is D,E,F
Driver’s & specified front passenger seat D - A 3 point belt
Other forward facing front passenger seats (where fitted) E - 3 point belt, lap belt or a disabled person’s belt
Rear seats See notes on Page 2 F - Nothing - kit cars don't have any rear seats.
So, the driver has to have a 3-point belt BUT the passenger to the left of him can just have a lap belt?
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nitros44
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Post by nitros44 on May 21, 2012 19:21:40 GMT
You will be OK with 3 point belt on drivers side and lap belt on passengers,obviously forget about the non existent rears. The "V" REG number is off a vehicle that had a suffix letter identifier. If the v5 document states what it does then then that will be evident on mot computerization such as 1st used dates where the vehicle will have to meet the standards accordingly
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phaetonott
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Post by phaetonott on May 21, 2012 20:02:00 GMT
The two front seats both require a 3point belt.
If you have a three front seat arrangement, like a Transit, the centre seat need only have a lap belt, but the driver's and one of the other front seats must have a 3point. It's normally the outer one.
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nitros44
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Post by nitros44 on May 21, 2012 22:18:20 GMT
The two front seats both require a 3point belt. If you have a three front seat arrangement, like a Transit, the centre seat need only have a lap belt, but the driver's and one of the other front seats must have a 3point. It's normally the outer one. Well thats right then!! the donor vehicle was a transit yes??LOL Ya you are correct,3 point belts for drivers and passenger which i said in a previous post originally,why did i say lap belt??
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Post by markie76 on May 23, 2012 14:24:21 GMT
Ahhhh, I'm with you now The rules take into account vehicles with more than 1 passenger in the front row... Thanks for your replies and bearing with me. I hope it wasn't a transit - it certainly doesn't look like one. I now have the car and have looked at the 4 point race harnesses and have a weekend of head scratching to look forward to
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Post by markie76 on Aug 24, 2012 16:26:25 GMT
FINAL QUESTION ON SEATBELTS...
Does the MOT require the seatbelts fitted to have the British kitemark or EU approval label?
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Post by baz657 on Aug 24, 2012 16:49:20 GMT
Not if they are standard fitment. The only E Mark requirement is for replacement harnesses...
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Post by markie76 on Aug 24, 2012 17:10:08 GMT
Not if they are standard fitment. The only E Mark requirement is for replacement harnesses... Thanks for your reply. With kit cars there is no 'standard fitment' - if this means as fitted by the motorcar manufacturer when sold new? Looks like my kit car had 3 point static belts fitted. These were removed (the belts have been removed but the stalk recepticles remain) to have 4 point harnesses put in. But this requires welding a crossmember to fit the top eyelets to. For the MOT I was hoping to buy some cheap 3 point static belts to fit in the existing mounting points. For the 4 point racing harness (which is E2 marked) are there any MOT requirements for the eyelet mounting points I need to pass onto the welder doing the job? Do I need to weld in the 40mm X 40mm eyelet mounting plates OR as long as the eyelets are mounted to a rigid point is satisfactory? Thanks.
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Post by baz657 on Aug 24, 2012 17:39:28 GMT
There is no requirement (that I can find) in regard to harness mounting. Aside from a tester giving the belts a good tug and checking for corrosion and or cracks around the mounting area there is nothing in the manual to clarify this.
Any crossmember that any part of the seat belt is attached to will automatically become a "prescribed area" which has to be free of rust and cracks and will have to be substantially strong enough in the event of a crash - the actual strength wont be tested but the "general" security would be.
Personally, I would like to see any conversion welding to have been continuous (seam welding) but that doesn't appear to be a requirement for the MOT.
There may be some Construction and Use regulations that need looking at but you'd need an expert on them to advise you.
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nitros44
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Post by nitros44 on Aug 24, 2012 21:02:21 GMT
The eyelet mounting plates in my opinion would be better welded to the structure and are there to spread the load as a bolt just fitted on its own could well rip through the structure.
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phaetonott
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Post by phaetonott on Aug 25, 2012 11:21:49 GMT
Most of the kits I've been involved with have lugs welded to the chassis for seatbelts. When yo buy it new you specify which type of belt you plan to use and they weld the lugs in (almost) the right places.
If you are planing to change the blts, I would consider mounting to chassis, before mounting to steel bodywork, and only as a last resort with a large load spreader fitted, would I attach to fibreglass
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Post by markie76 on Aug 26, 2012 14:50:08 GMT
Ok, thanks for your replies.
Unfortunately I'm not building from scratch otherwise all seatbelt mountings would be chassis/structure jobbies.
For the 4 point harness the existing bottom mounting points are to the chassis. The top mounting points will have to be welded to the crossmember of the roll bar and then that will need to be reinforced.
Going back to 'standard fitment' seatbelts. I have been offered a set of standard fit seatbelts removed from a Vauxhall - but they don't any approval labels on them. So they won't be any good for me?
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Post by baz657 on Aug 26, 2012 15:12:06 GMT
As long as they work, the webbing is ok and they're securely fitted I can't see a problem.
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